Interview with Betty DeGeneres

Extended Family: An Interview with Betty DeGeneres

by Lauren Neal, MatthewsPlace Youth Corespondent

Betty DeGeneres called me back immediately following our very thoughtful and moving phone interview. She wanted to note that she considers Judy Shepard a hero of her own, someone whose work and fortitude she greatly admires. The strength and possibility of the LGBTQ community lies in this network of persons who share a goal: equality and rights for all.

The community of LGBTQ and allied persons is diverse in its political, racial, economic, social, and professional breadth. This parsing often makes the public forget the personal at the core of any battle for civil rights, social equality, and mere respect. The circulation and progression of any movement needs at its center an engine powered by the love between partners, love between parents and children, and love between those who support and inspire our work in the world.

Unfortunately, many LGBTQ youth are not blessed with the support afforded by mothers as devoted and wonderful as Betty DeGeneres or Judy Shepard. Unfortunately, even a loving mother’s reach cannot always prevent institutional and/or more overt discrimination, physical violence, or psychological pain. Still, it is from a supportive and passionate network of individuals committed to the success and livelihood of others, that love can emerge and operate as best it can. It is crucial to remember that we never know who may be watching, who might be aching for a soothing or supportive word, who we are liable to inspire. Betty DeGeneres’ support inspired her daughter to become one of the most well-known and well-loved entertainers of the past two decades; Judy Shepard’s love moved Mrs. DeGeneres to hit redial, and innumerable other persons to revisit their attitudes toward homosexuality.

Betty DeGeneres acknowledged her resolve to simply “[live] by example” in the raising of her children. I make examples of, and feel a desire to emulate, both Mrs. DeGeneres and Judy Shepard: amazing women who do their best work when operating from a place of love. It is in this way that the love multiplies and finds its way to those who, again, feel alone, neglected, disregarded, or not a member of any LGBTQ “community” at all.

LN: Thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed with us.

BD: Sure.

LN: It’s really an honor.

BD: Uh, no, I’m honored. This is on the Matthew Shepard website? Is that what this is?

LN: Yeah, that’s correct. Basically, the Matthew Shepard Foundation has a website that’s totally orientated towards providing resources for young people.

BD: Right.

LN: So to get started, I know you’re from New Orleans and I would really like to hear about what it was like to grow up in that city and what your early understanding of acceptance and diversity was.

BD: Well, that’s not such an inspiring story. It’s rather typical of that time and that place.  I don’t think anyone in my family was an activist or a pioneer in any sense of the word. We just went along with the way everything was. Just seemed to be the way it should be, and so that was that story. And what did you ask besides that?

LN: Just how then you came to understand the concepts of acceptance.

BD: Yeah.

LN: Or diversity.

BD: Yeah. You know, when Vance and Ellen started school, the schools were segregated, and when Vance was in high school and when Ellen was in junior high, was when the Civil Rights Act passed and everything changed dramatically in New Orleans. We just sort of were bystanders. And then, as far as acceptance of homosexuality, that wasn’t even talked about. So things have changed a great deal for the better.

LN: Right. How do you think that happened? That sort of change from going from just following along with the status quo, to watching a lot of changes happen?

BD: You mean for us personally?

LN: Yeah, sure.

BD: Certainly having a daughter who is gay made all the difference in the world. Ellen and I always had, were blessed with, a close special relationship. And when she told me she was gay, when she was 20 years old, I just knew that nothing was going to interfere with our relationship. And because I loved her so much, you know, to quickly understand and accept gay men and lesbians, you know, and meet her friends, in fact the whole family was accepting. So that was a good thing.

LN: Do you think it’s just because you had a strong family relationship before that made it easier?

BD: I think so. From stories I’ve heard, you know, it’s when sons and daughters have troubled relationships with their parents, well, that doesn’t help them to have a bond and then to become closer and the parents be supportive. That’s kind of an extra hurdle, I think. So yes, I thought Ellen was always the girl-next-door type and then, suddenly, she was going to be discriminated against. And that brought me face-to-face with reality. And was very eye-opening.

LN: What advice would you have for children who are concerned with the response that they might have from their parents when they do come out?

BD: Well, every situation is so different, and I have heard so many stories. And sometimes they are a lot closer with one parent more so than the other, so they sometimes want to talk it over with that parent first — if it’s the mother, let the mother approach the father, or approach the father together. You know, there are different situations. But it’s so wonderful when they can talk about it and come out.

LN: Right. I think it’s really indicative of the fact that people, especially adolescents, just need to find as many older mentor types as they can, or people who they can talk to or ask questions, and just find any support, whether its parents, or teachers or —

BD: Yes. Or somebody to go to that (will) be understanding. You know, what is so, so sad to me is that I’ve heard more stories of the son or daughter who struggles, sometimes for years, not knowing whether to tell the parents, and agonizing over it. Finally they work up the courage and the parents say “Oh, we knew that.”  What a waste of time! And they could have had all that support. And one story — whoever told me this story said they finally, finally worked up the courage and told their parents and the mother said “See, I told you so!” to the father. That’s very sad.

LN: That’s actually similar to Matthew Shepard’s story — when he finally came out to his mother, and she says that she always had an idea and that she always really knew.

BD: Yes … Parents do, they just pick up on things and then they’re afraid to say something or, you know, don’t know if they should. It’s a problem.

LN: What kind of values did you try to instill in your own children as they grew up and things like that? Other than just having a really great relationship with them? Which obviously you managed quite well.

BD: Well, I would say just living by example. They saw their father who was — we were in Christian Science when they were children. So they lived by trying to do right and following good examples and all of that. But I would say that would be it.

LN: Right.

BD: I think [to do] the right thing, whatever the right thing is.

LN: Right. I think that that’s always probably the best way to go, leading by example. Because actions, actions are key.

BD: Yes. I think we were brought up to be considerate of other people and respectful and that whole [principle of] “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.” So Vance and Ellen learned that from their grandparents and from us to be considerate of other people. And I’m happy to say that they’re both still that way.

LN: I think it’s so funny that something that seems so simple is actually more important than maybe it’s ever been, just because there are so many different types of people and different beliefs — that it’s really important.

BD: Yes. And people who are thinking that their way is the only way.

LN: Mmm.

BD: When it couldn’t be more wrong. So, a live-and-let-live attitude — we always had that.

LN: How difficult was it to navigate the coming-out process and having a child that’s so much in the public eye?

BD: Well, you know, Ellen didn’t come out until, really publicly, until she was on her ABC sitcom. That huge event was 12 years ago when, it’s amazing to think now, young people in high school don’t even know about that, and they’re so used to having gay and lesbian characters on TV and in movies. But it was a pretty bold move at that time. But by then all of her friends knew, all of the family knew. It certainly wasn’t news to us.  And it did make that big splash with the cover of TIME and interviews with Diane Sawyer and with the whole family. It was a very big deal. Then, then I was finally able to join PFLAG and go to meetings because I would have outed her if I had gone before. So it was a good thing. And then of course HRC right away asked me to be their “Gay Spokesperson” for their national coming-out project, and that was marvelous. So wonderful. Broadened my horizons, it was wonderful.

LN: What’s it like to be a member of PFLAG and get to meet other parents and connect with other people?

BD: Oh, that’s so great. I always recommend, when I give my speeches all over the country and I always take questions and answers at the end, do Q&As. And always recommend when people say they’re trying to help their parents understand, then I say, “Take them to PFLAG. Go with them to a PFLAG meeting.” Because they have these rap sessions where we break up into circles of maybe eight or 10 people and each circle would have a leader and just talk about specific personal problems. It was wonderful for new parents just grappling with this information, and it’s just marvelous.

LN: That sounds great. I think something that I find really admirable about you is, you know, it’s great obviously to have LGBT persons who are at the forefront of media and all that sort of thing. But I think it’s just as important to know that their families are publicly supportive of them and just, again, setting a really great example for other families in similar positions.

BD: Well, I’ve heard from a lot of people, in my travels, that I have made it easier for their parents, because they see how supportive and accepting I am, and it somehow makes it easier for them. So I’m just so happy that just because I am Ellen’s mother I can do some good that way.

LN: I mean, a great deal of good.

BD: Yes, it has been. Apparently it has been.

LN: Every time I see her in commercials, I feel like it’s just one more step in a great direction.

BD: Yes.

LN: It’s not unusual at all to have an LGBT person in, like you said, movies and TV shows, and to have their own TV show, and to be very popular and very well liked.

BD: I know, I know. When I go to her TV shows I am constantly just amazed at the cross-section of people in her audience. You know, they have these elderly couples, men and women, and you have every ethnicity and race, just cheering and carrying on, and it’s really wonderful.

LN: Right. Do you think that her talent for humor has a lot to do with that too?

BD: Oh sure. And everybody says that she seems so real and so natural, and she is. She’s just the way she is on the show — it’s the way she is, and I think that’s what people get.  And accept. So it’s pretty great, and she’s so open about who she is. So I think it’s been a great help.

LN: Does she get that from you? Are you the original comedian of the family?

BD: No. No. They both — you know, Ellen’s brother was on the Daily Show and he and his roommate years ago created Mr. Bill on “Saturday Night Live” and so he’s just as funny as she is, and they mainly get it from their father, because he has a really great sense of humor and everything he said he made a joke out of, and puns, and is really, really corny. But they grew up during [his] funny remarks so it was just natural to them.

LN:  That’s great. I would think that humor is one of the best ways to make not only intelligent critiques, but to relieve a lot of tension and things like that.

BD: Absolutely … it’s great. And she gets a lot of comments from people who are like (shut-ins) and going through illnesses, and they watch her show, and it’s their bright spot in the day, so that’s pretty great.

LN: I’d really like to know, what it is, in relationship to LGBTQ activism, that you’re most proud of yourself for?

BD: Oh my goodness. Well, I don’t know that I’m proud of myself. I’m happy and grateful that I was able to do some good and speak out to all kinds of groups and big corporations and PFLAG and conferences, and I’m trying to think of what else. Catholic universities, which was surprising to me and really got the message out, of acceptance and equality for everybody.

LN: What would you say to people who want to find the most creative ways to tell their stories or use their voices in a similar way?

BD: I don’t know. I think getting out and speaking to groups, large groups, and taking their questions. That seems to work well. You know, there seems to be a need for that. They can have my place because I’m about ready to retire. I’ve been traveling for 12 years and I’m pretty much of a stay-at-home mom anyway, so I kind of think I’m going to let somebody else do that now. And I don’t know who that is, but they should step up.

LN: Hopefully there are more and more and more people all the time.

BD: Yes. And hopefully we’ll come to the day where we don’t need that.  That it’s a given that we accept diversity. We celebrate diversity. Not just accept. We celebrate diversity. That would be wonderful.

LN: That’s great. That quote should be in a book somewhere.

BD: It might be in mine.

LN: That’s what I was thinking. All right, well, I think I’ll let you go, but thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today.

BD: Well, thanks for calling, Lauren.

LN: Of course.

BD: It was great of you.

LN: It’s a real pleasure.

BD: Thank you so much.