Interview with Lance Black

Dustin Lance Black is a multi-talented writer, producer and director, having won the 2008 Academy Award and Writers Guild of America Award for Best Original Screenplay for MILK, the Gus Van Sant-directed biopic of the late gay rights activist Harvey Milk. Recently, Black began pre-production on his feature directorial debut WHAT’S WRONG WITH VIRGINIA, a drama with stars Liam Neeson and Jennifer Connelly currently attached. In addition, Black and Van Sant will re-team for ELECTRIC KOOL-AID ACID TEST, an adaptation of the celebrated Tom Wolfe novel set up at Fox Searchlight.

An honors graduate of UCLA’s School of Film and Television, Black began his professional career as an art director on commercials, and quickly transitioned to directing documentaries, television series, commercials and music videos. Black’s first two documentaries ON THE BUS (2001) and MY LIFE WITH COUNT DRACULA (2003) both debuted to acclaim and subsequent festival success. ON THE BUS, originally commissioned as a half-hour internet program about a group of young men traveling to the Burning Man Festival in Nevada, was re-edited into an independent feature by Black, and later developed a cult following amongst the festival’s diverse fan base. MY LIFE WITH COUNT DRACULA, an in-depth look at the final days of Dr. Donald A. Reed, creator of the Count Dracula Society-turned-Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy and Horror Films, premiered at the Los Angeles Film Festival in 2003. The success of these two projects, coupled with Black’s narrative short film SOMETHING CLOSE TO HEAVEN (which was named one of the ten best shorts of 2001 and earned Black a spot on AMC’s “Five Filmmakers to Watch” special), lead to a successful stint producing, directing and writing TLC’s hit program FAKING IT, based upon the famous BBC series about ordinary citizens spending time in a field far removed from their normal lives. The program received notices for its unflinching sociological commentaries.

In 2004, Black signed on to draw on his devout Mormon childhood experiences in San Antonio, Texas as a writer on HBO’s Emmy and Golden Globe nominated polygamist drama BIG LOVE. Black recently wrapped the third season of the series, in which he also served as co-producer. During his work on the series, Black often traveled to San Francisco, where he spent many years as a teenager, to research the life of Harvey Milk, the first openly gay man elected to a major public office. Milk’s message of hope lead Black to pen his screenplay for MILK, which stars Academy Award winner Sean Penn, Academy Award Nominee Josh Brolin, James Franco, and Emile Hirsch. The film was released by Focus Features in November 2008 to unanimous praise, later receiving 8 Oscar Nominations including Best Picture of the Year.

Prior to MILK, Black penned the story and screenplay for PEDRO, the first scripted project from Bunim-Murray Productions about the life and legacy of famed REAL WORLD cast member Pedro Zamora. The film premiered at the 2008 Toronto International Film Festival and debuts on MTV this spring.

MP: There you go. Our chat today is for our website for young people called MatthewsPlace.com, which is a site that Judy had us create to offer support to LGBTQ and allied young people. Ultimately, it’s for that young person who sits in rural Iowa and doesn’t think that anyone cares about them. It’s a safe place.

LB: Right, so he can get married one day and I can’t.

MP: Ain’t that the truth. It’s nice to hear that someone else has jumped on the Federal bandwagon.

LB: Oh good. Yes, are you kidding, I’m going to go beat that drum tomorrow and see what they can do for -

MP: No I’m right there with; I think you can go piecemeal or you can just ask for the whole plate.

LB: Yeah some of these things I’m sorry “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” and obviously Matthew Shepard, I mean these things should pass immediately. It’s embarrassing.

MP: Very much so. I spend a lot of my time, probably 50-60 high schools a year I visit across the country, talking to young people about what they see, and I came to this realization that it really doesn’t matter to you who I am as a person. Nor should you dictate that I should have different rights than you or no rights, because whether or not I marry another man really doesn’t affect your life.

LB: Right.

MP: You know? I just wanted to start by asking a little bit about you growing up and if you ever experienced being picked on or bullied for something that made you different?

LB: Sure. I grew up in San Antonio, Texas.

MP: I’m from Houston so I can empathize.

LB: Yeah, it’s probably similar. We always thought Houston was rough. They had a bad rep for being a bit rough.

MP: I would agree with you. It’s not my favorite city.

LB: San Antonio, I moved there when I was like four years old. I was a military brat and I was in the Mormon Church.

MP: OK

LB: So all those things stacked up together meant that I knew what it meant to be gay from a very very early age because everyone was talking about it. Let me tell you: they’re not saying the kindest things about it. Whether you’re in church on Sunday, or you’re hanging around with some military folk back then, or you just know kids in school in Texas-it’s a very very conservative atmosphere.

MP: Right.

LB: You’re hearing words, and I’m not just talking about saying the word gay. You’re hearing words and names that are far more brutal. Even if they’re not being used at you directly, you’re hearing them. It sends a really strong message that there’s something broken in you; there’s something wrong with you; there’s something that it’s OK to make fun of. So I think a lot of gay and lesbian kids know they’re gay from a very early age; I certainly did. I was six-years-old when I had my first crush.

MP: Right.

LB: It’s when a lot of straight little kids are starting to have their first crushes.

MP: Right.

LB: So, I knew from a very early age that there was something broken.

MP: How would you say those experiences made you the person that you are today?

LB: I think because I understand first hand what it feels like to be told that you’re less than. I understood that I didn’t have equal rights in this country by a pretty early age.

MP: Right.

LB: I was afraid of being bullied, I was afraid of being hurt, I was afraid of bringing shame to my family, I was afraid of Hell, I was afraid of all these things; it makes you stop excelling.

MP: Right.

LB: I think for a lot of people, they resort to suicide because they feel like they don’t have the opportunity to fulfill their dreams like other kids do. So, because I know that feeling first hand, I feel like I would be so negligent if I didn’t do something to try and fix that.

MP: Right.

LB:Because I know that there are kids out there today who are still feeling that-everyday they’re feeling that. The kids who woke up and heard that we are unable to (marry) in the state of California on November 5, 2008-how did that make them feel? Putting aside the people whose marriages won’t be recognized-how did it make the kids feel to never be allowed to get married, or have (it) be recognized by your country? It’s made me into an activist.

MP: Right.

LB:It’s made me into someone who wants to make things better for kids out there today, than they were for me.

MP: What caused that shift? What caused that shift from going from not being comfortable with who you are to realizing that this is who I am, and I’m going to be exactly who I am?

LB:Well, I talked about that a little bit when I was testifying recently in front of the California State Senate for the recognition of the Harvey Milk Day in California; he would join the ranks of Cesar Chavez and Martin Luther King. I said to them, I discovered there was such thing as an out-gay person by luck; I discovered there was such thing as an out-gay hero by luck. I was very lucky that my father was transferred to the Central Coast to Ft. Ord when I was a teenage boy. It was a very dark time for me, that’s when things were getting very dire. I started working in the theatre and I met, for the first time, out-gay people.

MP: Right.

LB:I was told the story of Harvey Milk, and I found out that we have a gay hero. That started the change. I mean it’s still a slow change, there’s a lot of healing that has to happen. It’s not like overnight, all of a sudden, I’m celebrating who I am; but that was the first step for me in the healing process: finding out that I have heroes and that you can live openly and achieve your dreams.

MP: Right.

LB:So I think that role models-knowing about role models, first, is really really important.

MP: That’s the number one thing that Judy says when someone asks them what they can do is. She says: you need to come out of the closet. Because we’re not the Village People, and we’re not Jack from Will & Grace-we’re your doctors, we’re your lawyers, we’re your judges, we’re your politicians, we’re your activists, we’re your mothers, we’re your fathers.

LB:You sound like Harvey Milk.

MP: Right-very much so. For me, one of the most striking things about the film was how much it parallels exactly what we’re going through right now.

LB:Absolutely.

MP: I think when I talk to young people in particular, there’s this lack of understanding about who came before them, and this history. So why do you think the idea of understanding, not just for LGBT people, but for all people, the history of our movement is so important and what can we do to help fix that learning curve, or breach that learning curve?

LB:What I’ve been saying so much is, and I’m so glad to hear this is what Judy is saying, is that first off you have to come out; because it is through telling our personal stories to straight people, and to our families, and to our friends, and the people we work with-that is how minds are changed. Minds aren’t really changed when it comes to political bickering. Minds are changed when someone you know comes out to you; someone you know tells you their personal story. The thing you learn first and foremost is that this is not a choice-this is who they are. This isn’t all the myths and stereotypes you might have heard in church, or from your families, or even from some of the messages that are sent by our government-this is a person you love, who is human; this is inherent in who they are. Then the next step comes, which is to know that our Constitution protects us from anything that is inherent, that is how we were born. We should not be discriminated against in that way. I’ve seen minds changed. I saw my mom go from someone who was homophobic-I came out to my mom because she was talking about “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”. And she wasn’t talking about it angrily because it was (inclusive), she was talking about it because she couldn’t imagine LGBT people being allowed to serve openly, and she was very angry about it. I’ve seen her go from that to being one of the strongest advocates for full and equal federal LGBT rights-and that’s tough. This is a Southern woman who grew up in a very small town, who grew up very religious-Mormon woman-and I’ve just seen this transformation that can happen. So, yeah, I agree with Judy. I think come out and tell your story. I think that gay leadership is making the same mistake that was made before Harvey Milk. Before Harvey Milk, you rarely saw LGBT people representing themselves. We would always depend on straight allies to try and tell our story, and they just can’t.

MP: Right, right.

LB:I mean we have to tell our stories by example, first person.

MP: And now what-no I’m sorry I didn’t mean to jump on top of you.

LB:No go ahead, I’m probably being repetitive.

MP: No, no you’re not. I think the toughest thing for me is when I’m at a high school and I have someone come up to me after, and you know they want to tell you. You know they want to tell you, but they’ve just told you how unaffirming their parents are and how they have this strict religious code and you can just see it in their eyes that they want to tell you. So you know a lot of, at least us at the Foundation is, how do you help those young people who have this severe fear that nobody’s going to love them if they let people know this secret. And I think one of the things is there has to be positive role models.

LB:Yeah, I agree.

MP: They have to see that it’s OK.

LB:To watch what happened a week and two days ago, in Salinas, California; which is where I ended up in high school-(a) working class, predominantly Latino, conservative Christian environment-this is where I grew up. These 1200 kids showed up for this assembly that I spoke at. And I was concerned. When I went to the school I was called a fag a couple of times, and there was some violence at the school when I was there, and I was afraid that I might get hurt. Now, I gave my speech and they were incredibly receptive, but the amazing thing was that afterwards, a kid stood up. And in front of 1200 students, he came out of the closet. He talked about the struggle of coming out in a conservative home and he started to tear up. The student body didn’t get uncomfortable, and it wasn’t polite applause, they gave him an ovation-a really really resounding ovation that seemed to go on forever. He started to cry, I started to tear up, and what happened after that was three more kids-two women, and one young man-each came out and each got their own ovation. Part of it is me just getting up there, and trying to be a role model, and saying, “Hey you can come out of the closet, you can be proud of who you are, and you can get an Academy Award.”

MP: Right. Right.

LB:And you can be loved, and you can experience love. I think it does, it helps these kids understand that that is true. On the other side of coming out of the closet is great happiness. There is struggle with the family, for a time, but they will understand you eventually. Statistically, three-quarters of the parents do come around.

MP: You know one (area where), at least in my opinion, the adults in our community have fallen short-is not taking up the responsibility for caring for the young members of our community-the ones who have been kicked out of their houses, and the ones who don’t know that the world is a safe place. So what role, or what advice do you see those who have gone through this process playing in the lives of young people?

LB:I have to say one of the things-this is why, politically, I am for comprehensive federal legislation. Comprehensive being the key word. I know we are in a debate over relationship recognition and it’s important, but it doesn’t serve the needs of the LGBT youth who are afraid of coming to school, who are afraid for their lives in many cases. We need to have federal protection for LGBT people, as well as relationship recognition. We need full and equal rights, and federally, because there are some things that are always going to have to be drug kicking and screaming to full equality. It’s what happened in the black civil rights movement, in the women’s movement-and the only way to ensure that is through federal legislation. So, I would say to the people of my generation and older, who are so focused on relationship recognition, to not leave out the kids: don’t leave out the interest of young people. The young people have shown such courage in taking to the streets since Proposition 8. They’re willing to stand up and put their faces and their bodies on the line, so let’s not leave them out of this fight-this civil rights fight.

MP: Right, right. I know you’re busy, I’ll let you get back to your mocha. The last question is really what has this process taught you? What’s the most significant thing you’ve learned about yourself as a person through this process, something that you might not have thought you ever would have been or done or felt?

LB:You know, I’m mostly a writer/director so I’m behind the camera and that’s for a good reason. I was incredibly shy growing up. I couldn’t even be in the “Jingle Bell Band” in front of fifty people in my little church choir thing. I couldn’t attend my first two grades of school because I would have panic attacks in front of other kids. I’ve learned that when I’m this passionate about it, I can get up in front of 1200 students or 800 million people, and if I’m just speaking from the heart, my knees don’t shake so hard.

MP: Judy would echo that. She’s the first to tell you she would never have spoken in front of a group of people.

LB:Never. I never imagined I would be doing this-what I’m doing today. .

MP: Well, I have to say thank you, and you’re an inspiration too-your name has come up quite frequently when I’m at high schools-so I just have to say thank you.

LB:Well what I’ve been doing today is: we’re about to start a Nation-wide campaign of LGBT people telling their own stories from (the) first person. We do want a real cross-section culturally, racially, also age, gender, all of it.

MP: We can certainly publicize on our websites, and through our email list as well.

LB:Great. I appreciate that.

MP: No problem, well thank you for chatting with us. Enjoy your mocha! Bye Lance.